Rinchen Khando – India 2017 Transcript
April 5, 2017
The Karuna Project – Mount Madonna School
Ward Mailliard: There’s a reason that we come back and talk to Rinchen Khando over and over again, and I remember the first time I met her, and we came up to have refreshments and she came in just to meet us and we talked to her a little bit, and right away I knew we had somebody special.
This is our latest crop of students, they’re all seniors at Mount Madonna School about to go to college, and it’s important for me to have them meet people who have committed themselves to something over a long period of time, because that’s what it takes. Thank you for taking the time with us, it’s really an honor, and if you have any opening remarks you want to say, otherwise we can launch into questions whenever you’re ready. Ok, thank you. I will find a chair here.
Rinchen Khando: Ok. Firstly, thank you very much for coming and it’s a pleasure to meet you all. And I often think about when people come from so faraway places and we go to so many faraway places, why do we do this? And very often – if I’m wrong than please correct me- we are searching for something. Something better, something more meaningful, and we are guessing that there is something more on the other side of the hill than in your own valley. I think we are all in this situation today in this world that people are always looking at something else, somewhere else to find something better. And my secret is, to look into yourself, into your own area and see, what could I do to make this better? Isn’t it?
And we were talking about how people really, as I said earlier, go around and look for certain things, and so he was also with the same view that people go around looking for things and people like Mr. Professor, make it possible for you to come, I think this is wonderful. Otherwise, long ago, I think we lived too much again in our own little corner and never knew what was happening in the other side which is also not good. I really hope that by your coming here, we’ll be able to share certain things and answer your questions in a way that when you go back you can improve your own world, and make it better for yourself and for people around. We can’t change people overnight, Buddha couldn’t change, Jesus Christ couldn’t change, nor did Allah change, nobody could change us overnight, so how can we? But we can change ourselves. So, I think this is how we have to go. Because even in our home, when you have children, parents, we often point fingers on other- either dad, mom, or you girl, you boy, but we forget to look into ourselves, so I would say it’s so important to look into ourselves because we know ourselves the best, nobody else knows.
I’ve always tried to make a little contribution somewhere, not really expecting anything back, because if you expect fame, gain, nothing’s going to happen and then you’re going to be miserable in the end. But if you just give with the sure feeling of giving, then over the years, if it was good then it will accumulate the goodness and then it’ll become a mountain and then you can look back and say, ‘oh I never thought it would be like that’ with pleasure. Now I’m seventy and I have given my best to start with as a Tibetan to the cause of Tibet, to the people of Tibet, but as a human being to the humanity, as best as I can. But I can’t say, ‘I have done anything extraordinary.’ But I’ve done my best. So when I look back, I can always say- and I say this to my near dear ones also, that the point in life is, when your time comes to leave this world, you can go happily and say, ‘goodbye, I’ve done my best now you all carry on.’ So that’s my message to you.
Ward Mailliard: Do you want to start Bella?
Isabella Bettencourt: Hi, my name’s Bella. Can you tell us about the Geisha Ma – The graduation in February about the twenty Geisha Ma graduates receiving their degrees at Dolma Ling Nunnery?
Rinchen Khando: Geisha Ma degree, this was held in the south in (can’t understand), ok. This Geisha Ma degree is very, very important for the Tibetan nuns in particular and I think women in general, because this was never available, this particular degree was never available for the women in Tibet, even when Tibet was free. You know we had the monks studying all these wonderful subjects and therefore we have the most profound scholars today and therefore we learn so much from them, but we do not have a single woman scholar. And why we don’t have is because we never had the traditional teaching the women the same subjects. Although they were in the same field as monks and nuns but somehow the nuns were never made to study and therefore we never had any Geisha Mas and no teachers, and when we came to exile his Holiness was the one who pointed out and said, ‘you have to study. Just wearing the robe and cutting your hair doesn’t make you a nun, you have to study.’ So when he said, ‘you have to study’, we took it for granted that it’s possible to study. That’s how the Tibetan Nuns Project took the initiative to help them facilitate with all these- with the education, teacher’s salaries, books, classrooms, and all of this. They have to study 17 years, many months to get this degree, and then I remember going to a conference- the first conference. How should the curriculum be? How should it be taught? So this was a very important conference, and then I went there as a very simple individual- I’m not a scholar, but I felt that I need to go there because these nuns are my children, my girls, and I have to go as a mother to see that they are given the right thing. So, and then I said, please don’t make any concessions. Let them study the same subjects, give them the same topics, don’t give them any concessions and say, ‘let them pass at sixty percent, the others pass at eighty percent.’ The girls have to study hard. And I said, ‘I’m confident that they will be able to reach wherever the monks are reaching, but in case somebody can’t, then they can’t. You don’t have to make a concession just because she’s a woman student.’ So, therefore, they said, ‘alright, we’ll do the same thing.’ And we did everything exactly how the monks are doing. And then it’s a four year- after seventeen years, they have to do a four year of exams, during the exams, the best of investigators come from the south, from the very famous monasteries.
And then, I’d like to share this with my heart, with all of you that the best comment I had from these investigators was, ‘oh, we thought they wouldn’t be so good, they’re really good, the girls are so good.’ So anyway, they were so generous to share that, I thought that was really wonderful. Although it was the first thing they handled with lots of people watching them, they were not afraid to say this; I really treasure this. With all these efforts here and there, it happened this year in the south. So when the degree was ready to be given, we were thinking it would be good to receive from His Holiness at this temple which would be good for him, and when we requested that he said, ‘no, no, no, they will get it in the south.’ Because it was a very auspicious time in the south because it was the 600th year of the founding of (can’t understand) monastery. So he said, ‘let them have an extra honor, by receiving this on that day.’ So that’s how they got this in the south, on the 22nd of December, they received it from His Holiness. And it was really so wonderful with so many people happy and appreciating that this has happened. And then I met the girls separately and said, ‘this is one step, there are many more steps to come, so don’t get too excited because one thing is what you have learned, and the other most important thing is what you will do with it.’ Once things get settled down, we need to get together and then plan for the future.’ Did that answer your question?
Isabella Bettencourt: Yes.
Savannah Willoughby: Hi, I’m Savannah, and can you talk about how you were able to achieve this goal which changed centuries of practice?
Rinchen Khando: I think the main thing is His Holiness. Because he is the most listened to, respected, and everybody has trust in him, when he says something, that happens. So I think it was him that really pushed the button, and then to see that the light stays on, we have to work, isn’t it? Because otherwise, the light can go off and it won’t come back- anything can happen. So I think what we did was just make sure that the light stayed on. So my theory here is, sometimes I am stubbornly naïve because I didn’t expect anything to go wrong because I knew it came from the highest. And I knew it was a very profound topic- profound subject that we are dealing with. I used to also tell the girls, people might say all kinds of things, but your attention should be on the subject, don’t bother to even answer. Because if somebody comes and says, ‘you should not study.’ And truly comes to you and says that, then you come to me. As the girls studied and as they did well, people started to notice that started accepting it. So it wasn’t my vision, it was His Holiness’ vision, and then it was my effort. That we should help give birth to a little child, she or he grows up and we help that child to grow up, to walk, and then to run. And to do that, you need to have the child in good health, so all we did was this. And then most wonderful thing was all the scholars as I said, were very willing to really give them the best education.
Devyn Powers: Hi, my name’s Devyn. What were some of the greatest hurdles you had to overcome when forming the Tibetan Women’s Association?
Rinchen Khando: Hurdles? You know, I don’t want to sound that our society, or our community is different from others, I don’t think the Women’s Association had any hurdles as such, honestly. Because the Women’s Association was founded because a group of women up rose in Tibet in 1959 on the 29th of March against the Chinese government. Yet, what I marvel at was they knew what they stand for. They stood for their country, for their nation, for their culture, for their identity. And took- and had the courage to say this to the Chinese government. And I presume people understand this, therefore when the Women’s Association came into being, everyone really respected that. And then now, the role of the Women’s Association, then and now, had changed. Because now we are in exile, so the women said, ‘75% of our goal is to really do anything to regain our independence or be free to go back to Tibet- to a free Tibet. And then the rest of it is to join hands with the rest of the women of this world, and to understand how the rest of the women of this world fare, and where do we stand? This was how it came and I think Women’s Association has handled that very well. Therefore, to answer your question, I don’t think we had any acute resistance as such.
But within the society, there are areas where women have to work, where women’s Associations have to work. Like you do everywhere in gender equality, I think we have much less crude situations to handle than many other societies of this world. I’m supposed to be on their board of advisors, so I often tell them, ‘look into your field, and see what you really have and what you don’t have. What you don’t have, you strive and do anything to have it. But when you have it, appreciate that, and also say, ‘we are so happy that we have this.’’ So I think it is very important for us to again, like I said earlier, to look into the society, and according to the culture, according to the ways of life, what is there that should be? What isn’t there? When we talk about rapes and ok, domestic violence and all of this, let’s be very clear about it. I feel that the problem is human, not just men and women. Therefore, I feel that if all of us become decent human beings, educated human beings, cultured human beings, men and women, we will not need to fight over things like that. So therefore, if you are really cultured, compassionate, and treating the other one like yourself, and saying, ‘I wouldn’t like to be treated like that.’ Regardless of how tall, how strong, whatever you might be, you will not think of harming an insect. So I keep telling them, ‘let’s try to educate on a human level, not as men and women, I think both need the same education, both need to be more civilized. Because once we are open to look into ourselves, then we will know whether you are a man or a woman. Because I’m sure there are so many wonderful men in this world, and I have a boy and a girl, and when I observe them, there’s goodness in both of them. So we really have to appreciate that and cultivate whatever’s good in them, whether it’s your boy or girl. And I think their upbringing, their education brings, begins that home. And very often it’s so much to do with the mother isn’t it? I don’t know about the west, but in the east it’s very much the mother. Mother looks after the child, and mother has so much of a contact with the children. And therefore, mother being a women, and sometimes, like in China, and to a certain extent in India, you look up to the male child so much, ‘oh I have a son,’ and everybody’s so excited about it, then, of course, naturally the sons, the boys, they get an artificial input in them to say that, ‘I’m better than my sister.’ So the sister and the brother becomes a man and woman. So I feel that again here, we have to really look at it from the beginning and see what we can do to change. And then of course equal education, equal opportunities, all these are- of course, why not? Then it becomes, isn’t it? Because till now, it was yes for the boys and not for the girls. So again, to answer your questions, I don’t think the Tibetan Women’s Association had all the things to handle that they found it difficult, but they have to also be very wise. There are many areas that they could do better, and if they did it wisely, I think they will go a long way.
Amelia Busenhart: Hi, my name is Amelia. In the article, It’s Not Okay, you spoke about the Chinese military crushing the Tibetan uprising in Lasa, and you being told upon returning to your house after a day of play, ‘we’ve just lost our country.’ Did you fully understand what that meant as a child, and can you speak more about that experience?
Rinchen Khando: This is where sometimes ignorance is bliss, you know? Really. I could never understand this English word, ignorance is bliss. But from this experience, I understood that better. I didn’t understand exactly- I mean I didn’t understand anything that had happened in the depth. So, as I might have told you that time, my parents- this was in India, we had come to India for a pilgrimage and we were going to go back, and this is what had happened in Tibet. That was we came had come at the end of ’58 and this had happened in ’59, in March. So, in between, my parents had planned to send me to a school that was a convent run by Catholic nuns, that was very much respected and loved by some of the Tibetans who could come and study. So I was one of those children who my parents brought- they were going to leave me in the boarding school and they were going to go back. So deeply, I was very sad about that, ‘oh, my parents are going- I won’t see them for nine months.’ But I had no choice, I had to stay. So, now the point is, when they said, ‘Tibet is lost, you can’t go back anymore.’ My first question was, ‘does that mean my parents can’t go back?’ So now you get it. We had a cook I remember who said, ‘no, not your parents. Not everybody. Not anybody.’ So I was so happy to hear that my parents can’t go back. So that’s how- no, I didn’t understand it. But slowly of course, I understood. Yeah.
Isaac Harris: Hi, I’m Isaac. And what was it like to have left your home, thinking you would return, and then suddenly discover that you were not able to go back?
Rinchen Khando: See now, this is, now as a mature person, I can think back and answer. Otherwise at that time, I don’t know, I just followed what was happening and that’s it right. So now, when I think back, as a mature member of this community who had lived from ’59 till now, I can say with all my heart that it was all because of the leadership His Holiness gave to the people. And then also the love and respect and trust that came from the people for him. Because the people really thought, as long as he’s with us, nothing’s going to go wrong with us. As long as he’s with us, we can go back to Tibet. That trust was so huge that nobody was miserable, nobody was really desperate. Of course, we had problems of sicknesses and problems of shortness of food and accommodation. But this again, I can share with you, that the mental strength overrules all these physical problems. Because if you don’t have this mental strength, no matter- you know you could have been ushered into this beautiful place and say, ‘poor things, you’ve lost your country, not from today onwards you can live here, and these are the food you can eat.’ That could have done, but if we didn’t have that input from His Holiness, that aim to go back to Tibet, that aim to be a Tibetan, that respect you had, and that dignity you had for your own culture, for your own identity, that really overshadowed everything.
His Holiness was able to create a world of harmonia. Tibetan government in exile, Tibetan children’s village, Tibetan settlements, Tibetan (can’t understand), all this gave us the identity that we had, we never lost it. And we thought, in many ways, it was like a little Tibet here, for which I say this here, and I always say this everywhere, we are so grateful to the government of India, and the people of India, they really allowed us to be ourselves. Of course, we had to work very hard to be able to do many things, and for that, the international community became so helpful, because without their help, without their generosity, we would not have been able to do much, because India, although magnanimous, wonderful, has so many of her own problems, so we can’t expect Indian government to look after us. So that way, I think we’ve been able to create, I say with pride, one of the best communities of exiled people, who have not lost their aim yet, who have stayed together, who have been able to give the sense of identity to the children. Which again, is so important.
So, so far, that has been our exiled life, because we looked on the brighter side always, and with the advice of His Holiness handled each day with the best of your ability and one day we will be able to go back. So people really trusted that, and then carried on. And then in having settlements, in each settlement there is a school, there is a monastery, it sort of made you really feel that you are in Tibet, with your own people. So I think in that way, our own suffering- I wouldn’t say we didn’t suffer, I wouldn’t say our people didn’t have any sadness, because they did. But the intensity was so much lowered because of the leadership from His Holiness and our own attitude. Did I answer your question? Ok.
Isaac Harris: I actually have another question. So, you said that you don’t remember a lot about life in Tibet, but do you have any memories that stand out?
Rinchen Khando: The good thing, is I only have good memories as a child in Tibet. I was born in the eastern part of Tibet and where the nature is beautiful. If you all went today, you would really love it, it’s open, it’s grassy, it’s got lots of trees, and lots of flowers in summer; wild flowers. We used to play in the field and pluck flowers as little girls. We used to make flowers to wear on the head, and all of those things. And then most interestingly, we were very, very, fond of horses. The community was very fond of horses, and then here, the girls were never told to not ride horses, we could ride horses as the boys. The boys could ride and do but the girls could also ride and nobody thought anything different from them. So I remember riding horse and going to swimming and then- swimming means in the river, which really brings back the memories of very natural child’s life. All those things I remember. And in those days Tibet was free and I never saw Tibet under the occupation, so I have left that memory alive in my mind. And of course, if Tibet becomes free today, I would be the first one to go. But the only sadness I have today is I am seventy years old. Because earlier, I used to think if we go back, I would go to the villages and try to start Women’s Associations and kindergartens, and all these things I had in my mind, but now, I don’t think I can travel that much within Tibet. So that’s how I feel about the old Tibet and now, and my memories of Tibet.
Param Walker: Hi, I’m Param. In a previous interview with our school you said, “don’t cling onto things when they don’t turn out how you hoped they would, let go and start fresh.” Given your experiences, can you speak a little bit more about this please?
Rinchen Khando: As a philosophy that really works very well, but I would like to tell you something more concrete, which is why I’m thinking. As a concept, of course, that’s the best, because why should you cling onto something that’s not working. But then you also have to find out from all directions, firstly, what you want to do is good, right? Then secondly, why is it not working? Is it lack of my ability? Is it lack of some other things that could have been there but is not there? If so, then you could also try to make that be there. So then finally, if it doesn’t work, why go on? I think the typical example is very often, it’s not the thing itself, but it’s the human nature, again, with that. Because there are so many areas people work together, and if the people think alike, if the people work together, the work goes very well. The moment people think differently, particularly if one is jealous of the other, and wants to overcome the other, then the work suffers, isn’t it? So if such things happen, then there is no point. This is what I said. There’s no point, I say, to dilute your pure lotus in the muddy water. So you go out of it and try to be somewhere else, but then you have to have lots of effort and perseverance. You can’t just say, ‘oh it’s not working so I might as well, this could be very well so much easier.’
Nathan Vince: Hi, my name’s Nate. In an interview with the Huffington Post, you addressed the distress of young Tibetans who struggle with the fact that their country has been taken from them. What do you think is the greatest challenge facing young Tibetans?
Rinchen Khando: Now the fourth or fifth generation of Tibetan children are growing in exile, and same in Tibet, and we have lots of young people coming from Tibet who’ve never seen the old Tibet. So it’s a very important time, but yet a very difficult time. Not only for the young people, but for the elders as well. For the young, because they are energetic, they want to do something, they want to resolve soon, and that way, I think they could be more distressed that way when it doesn’t happen. So I think what the young people could do is hang onto the culture, hang onto your identity as Tibetans, and then also, I feel that Buddhism could really help them. Now I’m not only saying Buddhism because Buddhism is the religion the Tibetan people follow, but to me, it is a philosophy. If you study Buddhism, you don’t have to take it as a religion. Because there are many things Buddha said is also just like what Jesus Christ said. Anyway, to go back to us, because Buddhism is our national philosophy or religion or whatever you say, but within that, if you really study properly, there is so much in there. You could then become strong with this philosophy and then carry on what you need to. Which is firstly what you need to do to set Tibet free, and to set Tibet free I think you need to have a vision of firstly, it’s the right of the Tibet people to live as and how they want to. So to get that right, I’ll do anything. I think that’s much more profound than pointing fingers on the leadership of the Chinese government. Because leadership is leadership, but then among the Chinese people, there are many people who also care for us, who also want us to be free, who also are not really happy within their own country as Chinese people.
I think it is very difficult for our young people to understand this broader version, but once they do that, then I think it will be much easier to struggle. And then the most important thing is they have to be intact. They themselves have to be intact with the philosophy, with health, with education, with exposure, then be able to deduct matters in a way that it really makes sense. Otherwise it’ll be just like many of the politicians today, with all my respect for all of those who are good, but there are also those who makes no sense, they talk a lot of- give a lot of speeches, but doesn’t make much sense. So our young people, if they look up to people like that, forget about Tibet. So I think that’s what- I really feel deeply for the young people, because I know they are very enthusiastic. They really believe that Tibet belongs to the Tibetans, to the extent that they say, ‘why should we not struggle for independence? Because Tibet was independent?’ But of course, His Holiness said, I don’t know how much you know, we are struggling for middle way. So their feeling for Tibet is so much so that they don’t want to go middle way, but they want to go independence. So that shows how enthusiastic they are about it. And yet, they live in exile and there are very many limitations. And so those of us who are in the field of caring for them, have to be really dedicated in the true sense. I’m not saying they’re not, but I think we have a very precious thing to care for.
Aki’o Nanamura: Hi, my name’s Aki’o. In an article from Women’s Rights Asia you said, “the voices of Tibetan people which speak for peace everywhere, must not only be heard, but listened to.” What are the steps to establishing that connection so that Tibet can speak and be heard by the rest of the world?
Rinchen Khando: Thank you, I didn’t know the things I say are being heard by so many, I’m glad to know that. Yeah, I say it should be heard means, on a people level, I think we are very lucky, everybody loves the Tibetans and they think we are something they think they can be friends with. But on the platforms this voice should be heard. And platforms that can make a difference in this world. And I always say, today it’s Tibet, but it can be any nation tomorrow. So unless we have a platform that hears these sort of voices and really tries to give this voice its own due, the world is going to be in a mess in fifty or sixty years’ time. Therefore, as a Tibetan today, I beg to all the governments and all the people of the world, to please listen to the voices of the Tibetans. So that let Tibet be the last one to be pleading for such things. And there could be many more in the future if they don’t listen. Because we have chosen- we humanity have chosen to be governed by democracy, and we all want our own rights, our right to speak, our right to choose, why not? We are free human beings. But then this right has to be used in the right way, on the right platform. Are we really doing what we are saying? Are we really giving what we say we are giving? So it is all- sometimes it is all drama, isn’t it? Yeah, so this is what a helpless Tibetan refugee woman is saying today in this world, because I don’t have a country, but I have my senses of seeing, hearing, and understanding, therefore, when I look around, sometimes I feel really disappointed. And if I may say this, not just for Tibet, but for humanity by large. And what is that, is now missing. Because in the past, we all struggled for democracy, which is the best way of governing people. Then we also have parliaments in the countries which are chosen by the people. We thought all these are going to give us a good future, but are we really getting a good future or not? I think we all have to think and particularly those who have their own countries, they’re in their own countries, they hold positions that matter, what they say has weight. And therefore, let’s all pray that they say things that’ll really matter to make the humanity a better society.
Tara Ching: Hi, my name is Tara. I’m going to major in art in college and I was wondering how your education in art, and art as a whole, influenced your work in the Nun’s Project and just the general preservation of the Tibetan culture?
Rinchen Khando: When you say art, what do you mean?
Tara Ching: For me, I’m going into animation, and I just mean the traditional art.
Rinchen Khando: Ok, thank you. I myself am nil in art, I was very bad in drawing in school, I used to hardly score any marks when we had to do exams for that, but I really appreciate art. Somehow it really touches my heart, it’s so beautiful when you look at that, you really get a sense of a different world. And therefore, when I look at the art of Tibet, of many centuries ago, it gives me a lot of pride to be a Tibetan. In those days, oh my goodness, they knew how to do this. And how did they do this? Where did they go to learn this? All this makes me feel so proud as a Tibetan, but through our art. So we have all this (can’t understand) paintings which are really wonderful, therefore I’m a lover of arts but nil myself.
And then, as your contribution to the world today, I think you could really do a lot through your animations. Because we have become too lazy, we don’t read- we all want to see in the screen. So animation could really reach to the people’s heart. I will also share a personal experience with you from when I was younger. I, at one point, wanted to be a journalist, because I felt that what you write, has to have your heart in there. And then of course, things changed and I never got to be a journalist, but then I had the greatest respect for journalism, because I felt that they could write the truth and bring the truth to the people. So that way you have the best tool to reach the people. But then again, journalists are also human beings, isn’t it? So, when you are bribed by somebody, ‘go and write that about this.’ But there are also many other- as you know, there are wonderful journalists, but there are also those who can be moved by others, isn’t it? Similarly, your art could be really wonderful, could really serve the humanity provided you are strong to put your own view, and, I pray for you that you have the right wisdom and vision and so you can really reach to so many hearts. Yeah, that’s my view about art anyway.
Caroline Smith: Hi, my name is Caroline. In an interview in 2013 with Tricycle Magazine you recounted how your mother once said, ‘we’ll sell my jewelry and give the children an education. That’s something nobody can take away.’ Can you talk about the meaning of this for you?
Rinchen Khando: Yeah, meaning of this to me, you know again, as young girls, we all like jewelry, isn’t it? People really – older and younger alike, really like jewelry. We spend a lot of money on that, and then the point here is, when my mother said, ‘I want to give education so that nobody can take that away.’ That made me feel that anything external, like jewelry, house, cars, these can be there one day, and next day they could be also not there. Therefore, she emphasized on the importance of education, which I really deeply respect. And I respect more because she herself was not educated, she hardly knew how to read. No, but she came from a very good family, she had all the very good characteristics of her loving mother, but she was not educated as we know today. So, that again, makes me feel like there is two kinds of education. One is your born with, the other you acquire, isn’t it? So I think my mother had a lot of education born with so she could differentiate between the value of education and the so called jewelry. So this is the lesson I got from that, which I agree, which I really agree.
Izabella Thomas: Hi, my name is Izzy. In an interview with our school in 2015 you said, “it’s worth crying over suffering, and don’t think we are really happy here, but smiling is better than crying.” Can you speak to us about the importance of remaining positive in times of suffering?
Rinchen Khando: Yeah, that is true. Don’t think we are all happy, we are still not happy, but I’m smiling. I think to be suffering, like we spoke that time, was about us having lost our country, and being where we are, still struggling to go back and governments and things not paying attention- this is all suffering. So now thing here is, as I said that time, I will say today, we all could have been sitting and crying and saying, ‘what to do?’ Nobody’s really doing anything, and will anything ever happen with Tibet? The other thing is, whatever other people do, you have to carry your own cross, as we say. Isn’t it? So carry that, and try to carry that happily instead of crying. So that I think makes a lot of difference. Instead of sitting and doing nothing, and rather than knowing that it’s there and think how can you help that situation? And that is usually our attitude towards it makes a lot of difference, isn’t it? Otherwise we could be stuck with a problem and nothing productive happen after that, so that theory’s set. And after that we have- I’m sure other philosophies will also have, we believe in ever changing. You know Buddhist philosophy says nothing’s static, everything’s changing every moment. And then the change has to be made by us, cause and effect. You make the cause and then effect comes. So that means that you are the one to make change. So that I think gives a lot of strength to the individual. And also, Buddha said, ‘you are your own master.’ Nobody can come and do it for you, but you do it yourself. So this gave me a lot of strength- inner strength. Believing that I am my own master. Isn’t that wonderful? So I think this is what I meant at that time.
Shannon Kelly: In recent years, the Dalai Lama made the choice to separate himself out from the Tibetan government in exile, I’m wondering what effect you think that’s had on the Tibetan culture.
Rinchen Khando: There are people in the community who feel that he should not have done that. But then I personally feel that he did a wonderful thing. Because as we all know, as we all respect him so much, and believe in him so much, but he is also one of us. He is in human form. So we don’t know how long we have him with us. And then we also don’t know when the next one comes. What sort of a next one? You know?
So what he is doing is creating the future of Tibet for the people of Tibet, which I personally feel- although I miss his touch right now, but I feel that he did it for the sake of the future of Tibet. Which I think was a huge, huge move. Nobody could have ever done that, except this one. And then maybe it was easier in exile. But now, to make the best out of this is up to us, the children, the government people, all of us have to make the best of this. Because his gift is there, in the golden box, but what we do with the gift is up to us. So we really have to make the best of that, and follow his message, and this if we did, this is the best gift for Tibet, isn’t it? So again, as I say, much as I miss his touch, ‘I know, but let’s not talk about it, we have to make the best of what it is here.’ And I think that’s amazing, creating this parliament in exile and governed by the people, I think that’s wonderful. And I think this is not only that, but we ourselves as people have to also see what more changes we can bring in. Changes that’ll really make a difference to the nation, to the people. So that’s my view on this.
Ward Mailliard: May I ask a question? It has to do with education. And I was thinking we were at the Dalai Lama’s compound last night, and as we got there just before the monks came and they sat down and they were chanting. And I think there was something, I think for many of us, there was something very transportive about that. And somebody asked the question somewhere along the line, ‘why be a monk for your whole life?’ You know, you’re not getting anything, you’re living a simple existence, so what’s happening? And in talking with Samdong Rinpoche and getting his thoughts on education, there’s something about how the mind transforms in the process. And I was telling one of the students last night, that in the transformation of the mind, something extraordinary happens where you live in a different world, maybe a bigger world, maybe a more fulfilling way, not because of things but just because of awareness. So the question is, that I have for you, because you’re doing this work in such a profound way, you’ve set up the structure for this to happen, what do you think is the actual essence of real education? Beyond the topics and the subjects, what is the thing that you most feel and want to see in the transformation of the people in this school?
Rinchen Khando: You know, to talk about education lately, more so lately, I’ve been thinking, ‘what is education?’ We need to redefine education, particularly- I’m sorry to say this, looking at what’s happening in America. Because America, as we looked up as one of the biggest democracy, highest level of educated people, that didn’t really satisfy us. And then also, democracy, the best- I mean it’s the best way of governing people. Does the size matter? If so, India is the largest democracy. So we’re really- I think we’ve done well as people in fortunate countries, you educated the young people, you really upgraded the life styles and things like that, therefore, you know I think it’s really- we’ve done well, but know I feel we have to stop and see, what have we done till now? What is happening? And how should we be moving on? Because we all meant for the best, everybody thought they were doing for the sake of making life better for everybody. So I think this is where we are today, and then talking about education, as I was telling her, there is to me, there is two kinds of education. One is inborn education, the other is acquired education. So the inborn education is easier for us to understand because we believe in the next life: life to come, life to be there, so we can sort of easily say, ‘oh, it’s accumulation of many lives.’ But whether there is second life, or many lives, that is yet to be proven. But anyway, that helps us in the way of thinking, if you do well this life, if you are kind this life, if you are generous this life, if you are good to other people this life, you will be reborn as a better person. So that itself gives you inspiration, encouragement to do good. So therefore, I feel that philosophy at least works on that level.
So now, like these monks, you live so simple, you wear the monks’ robes, you have no hair on your head, why so simple? You know, which is so true. But the real purpose of that- Buddha was a prince, he had everything in his life that he wanted, he could get it at the wink of his eye, but he wasn’t happy. Why not? Because these couldn’t give him the desire of happiness. Eventually what he said was simplicity, and then enlightenment. So when enlightenment comes, then you really are in a different world. Maybe you can be in the most simple monks’ robe, or in the most simple way of living, but when that enlightenment is with you, you have the most happiness that nobody else has. So I think that is important, and to gain that, you have to really study the inner science. Buddhism and science are trying to get together, and they really go together. Because science has really benefited us so much in this world, but science also has its own limitation. But if you go Buddhism and science, mind and life, then maybe they will give us a better gift in the long run. So I think that is what is important. To find something that’s inwardly valuable. And that I think depends on how we all think, what we’re looking for, how we analyze ourselves, and that to me, makes a lot of difference anyway, and in my own little ways. You’re happy with less, you don’t waste time struggling for getting more, more, more, and for what? And then impermanence of your life. Believing in the impermanence of your life, that also can be very positive, because in a way we say, ‘oh my gosh, I don’t want to die, I don’t want to believe in that.’ In a way, if I don’t do good today, who knows if I will be there tomorrow or not, that way it gives us a chance to be good. So I don’t know if I answered your question, but this is how I think.
Ward Mailliard: What have you guys heard that she’s said that has struck you. If there are a few comments, what did you hear that kind of rang a bell for you?
Isabella Bettencourt: You were saying that you didn’t want to replace your good memories and you felt that it was unnecessary to go back and create new memories of something that was going to be more sad, and kind of take away from this happiness that you hold. It’s a beautiful thing to hold on to the past but still be able to move forward and enjoy the future and the present.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you.
Nathan Vince: You made this really interesting point, you said the Dalai Lama (can’t understand) if he was still in Tibet and so in that way you kind of view being in exile as being something better for the Tibetan people. So I really was just kind of blown away at your ability to look at this and put a positive spin on that, and how in hindsight, this time being in exile might be beneficial for the Tibetan people.
Rinchen Khando: Yes, I’m glad you got the essence of what I was trying to say. That’s exactly what I meant because in Tibet, if we were in the old Tibet, okay the government was there, His Holiness was the head but there was so many ministers and all sorts of things, it would not be easy to make that decision. You know one thing I have to also remind myself we did well, particularly in this case (can’t understand), we have the parliament, we have the power given to the parliament, we have the judiciary set up. But, the point is, we have to take this all back to Tibet. If we can’t do that, then what’s the use? So therefore, we have a really big responsibility here, His Holiness has done his very best, and given the power to us, now we really have to value the power of that particular move, and work accordingly. And once we can reestablish that in Tibet, then only can we all say we’ve done it.
Amelia Busenhart: In response to my question, when I asked you about how it felt to be told that you were losing your country, I don’t know, I liked how you talked about when you perceived it as being glad that your parents wouldn’t leave. And it kind of made me realize that through perceptions kind of a gateway, and that yes, ignorance can be bliss, but that can lead you on like a different outlook in order to do something greater with what you’ve just been told. So that was really cool.
Rinchen Khando: Exactly. That’s why I say that I am naïve.
Caroline Smith: I thought it was really interesting that you said you wanted the nuns to study and work just as hard as the monks do because I think that’s really important and makes it mean a lot more, rather than taking the easy way.
Rinchen Khando: That they really have to because they’ve been very lucky to be in this century and have His Holiness’ support and support all over the world. And to be able to have this easy- I mean difficult, they have to work very hard, but easy to- in the process they don’t have to worry about their food, shelter. It’s a big plus. And then I keep telling them, the world has been so kind to us and you have made the best of their kindness. It doesn’t stop here. Now you have to roll this kindness to other people, to the world. By large and to people around you, so you have a big responsibility.
Emma Peterson: My name’s Emma, I was actually in the class of 2011 that came to interview you. I’m a teacher now and I just want to say that a common theme that I’ve seen from both of these interviews is just your positivity and education, and especially women’s education and how inspiring it is to me, like being a teacher, and knowing the importance of- that all education is equal, no matter whether you’re female, male, what grade you’re in, that it’s important for everyone. So I just wanted to say thank you.
Rinchen Khando: That’s wonderful. And then also, as a teacher, when you- I’m sorry to say this again, as a teacher, I notice that to be able to be kind to the child, is the key to the opening of that child’s mind. So kindness- it’s amazing what it does to the other side. And then also, I often remind myself and say, there is no limit to the kindness we say we give to the other, because we often say, ‘oh, I’ve done everything, I’ve done- I’m now fed up.’ If we say that then we are losing, there is no limit to our kindness. And it’s amazing how kindness touches the other person, it blossoms. So remember that.
Emma Peterson: I teach kindergarten so their kindness is overflowing.
Rinchen Khando: Isn’t it? Oh they know exactly who’s kind, they know. They’re very, very intelligent.
Vibhuti Aggarwal: So what really struck me and what I’m taking back from here is how you mentioned multiple times about how we could stop thinking about what has happened and what is wrong and concentrate on what good we could do next. That’s really important, like that is what I learned from you. Thank you.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you. You won’t go wrong. I’ve been doing that myself in many ways.
Ward Mailliard: This is Vibhuti and she was with Teach for India and also the Youth Alliance in Delhi and so we met a few years ago in a conference I was doing there on dialogue, ‘Samvaad’.
Rinchen Khando: I see.
Ward Mailliard: So I’m very proud of the work that she’s doing, there are a number of young people in India that I encounter who are picking up the spirit of Karma Yoga, picking up the spirit of Gandhi, picking up the spirit of serving society. And it’s a very, very positive sign.
Rinchen Khando: That’s wonderful. You wrote me where you were, and that you were in that community, and I was wondering. That’s so nice, that’s wonderful. Where are you from actually?
Vibhuti Aggarwal: Ambala.
Rinchen Khando: Ambala? That’s really nice to hear.
Ward Mailliard: There’s a creative tension between the students- the young people and their parents, because their parents are going, ‘what are you doing?’ So her father and mother came to the Ashram to meet us the other day, and I said, ‘you have to understand what a great thing your daughter’s doing.’ So we also have to support the parents when the children take that next step, beyond commerce into society- service.
Rinchen Khando: Do you want to hear my view on this? Because I know exactly what you’re talking about. My view on this is, we have wonderful parents and parents who also care so much about their children, but don’t know how to care. Therefore, they want the best for their children, they don’t want them to go to places they don’t think will be good for them. So sometimes we have to also use our wisdom to be good to the children or care for the children. Isn’t it? We say that, ‘use your wisdom, even in giving alms.’ Because you can’t just give just because you have. So that way, I feel the parents are so important and they need to be educated on all this. And in many cases it may be too late for the present- or certain kind of parents, but we can hope for the future parents. So this is where I am working honestly, I don’t know, I would like to share this with you because this is very precious to my mind.
We really need to understand, what is religion? Because religion has really shaped so many peoples’ lives. I’m not saying Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Christianity, in particular, anything in particular, but so called religion. That really has shaped our lives in the past, and it’s shaping today. And it is shaping because we are ignorantly following it. So we really need to analyze. If you are a Buddhist also you need to analyze. There are many people in our community who go to the temple every morning, ten times, hundred times, who read their, you know, prayers, yet- I’ll give you an example. There is a mother who says this thick prayers every morning. And before she finishes the prayers, if the children make a noise, she gets so mad. So one day, I jokingly told her, what’s the purpose of this? This is to actually bring inner peace with you, I don’t think it’s bringing inner peace to you because you’re always so upset until you finish this. And then I also said, the point is not to finish it, but the point is to understand what you’re really reading. So if you really understand what you’re reading, doesn’t matter if the whole world goes upside down, you can still be calm. So therefore, I think it’s very important for young people to use your wisdom even in terms of religion.
Because I don’t know about you all, but this is playing a big role in terms of ignorant faith- I call it ignorant faith. That really sort of ties you up to so many things that otherwise you could have been open. And it doesn’t matter which religion, as long as it gives you a meaningful life. And then we go on fighting which religion, who’s what, and all this, I think we need to educate the younger generation in these things. And therefore, I think the bottom line is, not religion, but the ethics, isn’t it? So ethics doesn’t have any boundaries. If you go to a Hindu home, if a very ethical person goes there, everybody in the family will respect. Same thing everywhere. So I think ethics is the thing that we have to aim for, and then in my own little way- I don’t know if I told you before- I’m being very over ambitious to start a learning center in that empty place there, for ethics. For Lay girls. Because I say, we have plenty of places for nuns, know we need a place for Lay girls. Because I would like the future mothers to be as ethical as possible. So, I’m really working for a learning center for lay girls, from anywhere. For Tibetans, international.
Ward Mailliard: So we’ve been having this discussion with His Holiness since 2007 about secular ethics. And the one thing I would offer to that conversation is understanding what ethics are and understanding the mechanics and philosophy of ethics is one thing. But having the processes by which the people who are studying, including ourselves, can experience that, can experience the discernment required to have good ethics. Because ethics is based on discernment and values. So what I’ve been working on, and we’ve been working on, is what are the processes in which people can have that transformational experience of becoming more aware? And Buddhism of course is all about that. But in a secular world, people aren’t going to sit and mediate all day- just yet. So it’s the interactive process of us together. Like this conversation to me is actually an engagement in secular ethics, by listening to you and by asking questions. So I’m interested in the process. So I hope you start your school, and I would like to come visit it when you do.
Rinchen Khando: Well you made a mistake by asking me soon, because that depends on the funding, so you might as well help me get funding.
Ward Mailliard: So somebody has the last question, and then we should probably let her go.
Savannah Willoughby: What advice do you have for us young people trying to find our way towards a meaningful life?
Rinchen Khando: Young people, a meaningful life. I think first we have to analyze, what is meaningful? Is it being very famous? Is it being very rich? Or is it being very kind, altruistic, and live for each other? Because as long as you do that, I think you will be living a meaningful life. Because I see so many people just driven towards so called ‘a good life’, which to them is either being very famous, or being very rich. And that to me, there is no end to that. So to me, a meaningful life is being down to earth, simple, but always having time for somebody that needs you, and being kind to people around you, and doing whatever you can.
Ward Mailliard: We can remember that, right? Thank you very much for taking time with us.
Students: Thank you.
Rinchen Khando: You’re welcome.