Rinchen Khando Choegyal, Director of the Tibetan Nuns Project, is a founding member of the Tibetan Women’s Association, under whose auspices the Tibetan Nuns Project was established, and served as its President from its founding in 1984 until her election to the Tibetan Cabinet in 1994.
Rinchen Khando – India 2019 Transcript
March 27, 2019
Dharamsala, India
Maitri Project – Mount Madonna School
Ward Mailliard: So I said before, when I first met Rinchen Khando was 2007, the first time we came to speak with the Dalai Lama. And we’re going to see him tomorrow.
Rinchen Khando: Oh, good.
Ward Mailliard: It’s been six years since we’ve seen him, so this group- there’s something special about this group that they get to see him.
Rinchen Khando: Oh, that’s really good.
Ward Mailliard: Yeah, so we’re very excited about that, but I met you so briefly the first time, but right away, I knew we had to come back and talk to you, and we’ve come back to talk to you again and again. We’ve just had a tour today, and it’s the first time I’ve actually toured the grounds in all the times I’ve been here. I’m so impressed, even more impressed than I was before. And this new project you have, the education project, it’s such a brilliant idea.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you, thank you.
Ward Mailliard: So thank you so much for seeing us again, it means so much to us.
Rinchen Khando: Of course, it’s my pleasure.
Ward Mailliard: Ok, so the students have questions, as they always do, but we always want to give you an opportunity if there’s anything you want to say before we start, ok, thank you.
Rinchen Khando: Ok, yeah, I will just say a few words. Yeah, once again, I’m so happy that you all came, and I’ve been really looking forward to seeing you. Although, I am now retired- or whatever you call it. I am 74 years old and therefore, we have another director, the real director Nangsa Choedon, so I’m very happy to have found her, and I think it’s important for you; the teachers and the students, to know that she’s again, one of the very precious members of our society. She’s given all her life to the service of the community and the government in exile.
And I also want you to know, the Nun’s Project, their education has been very, very dear to me, and mainly because I believed in the philosophy that is based so much on human ethics. And therefore I felt that this was a wonderful area to focus and serve in whatever way I could. And so I can tell myself, at 74, that I’ve done my best. I don’t know whatever the achievement or not, but I’ve done my best. And I think that’s a very important feeling when one leaves the place or the samsara or whatever you all it.
So then, as I started paying attention to the development of human beings and when I go to see different countries, different sections of youth, I so realized that what we really need is the ethical growth on this planet. Doesn’t matter which religion you belong to. I don’t think there’s any religion which just forgets about ethics. So it’s all based on that, and therefore, then again, I said, now the nuns, as you know, have done so well in their education and their opportunity that was given to them, and they made the best of it, and today we have over 30 doctorates in philosophy from the Nuns. And they also studied the tantric and they’ve got the doctorate in that- in Tantric studies, which was never heard of in the history of Tibet. So this is a very great development for us women, but I believe that what we have has to be contributed to the human society. Therefore, who gains? We all gain.
So this is where I am today. Then also, as you heard, I said ‘now, I’m too old to really carry on the way.’ It’s better to get somebody because one day somebody will come and say ‘oh, what’s this (can’t understand) about?’ We don’t know, it’s no more, we can’t ask her. So it’s better to have somebody, and I convinced all my friends with much difficulty that they let me go. But then they also gave me all these very profound titles. Like The Founding Director, Special Advisor. So anyway, all this to me speaks as that you still can’t retire, you have to give your heart to the job. So anyway, I’m very happy to share this with you and professor knows this very well that this is my heart, this is where my heart is. And so I’ll never be able to forget this as such. And I’ve been telling Mrs. Nangsa Choedon that I’ll help you wherever I can.
And so now, as you’ve seen, the project- new project where we’re going to do the new center, and we’re in the process of raising funds for that, but I’m very optimistic that working with (can’t understand) and friends like all of you to take this off the ground. And this is based on ethical education for lay women because I say, the monks and nuns are getting full of their religious whatever it is, but I think the lay community is also very, very important. Therefore, we need to make this curriculum a little bit shorter, a little bit more feasible for them, because they can’t come spend 17 years here because by the time they get the degree, they’ll be too old to get married or you know – So that way, I thought it’d be good to have curriculums which is suitable for people who say ‘I can only spend one year, or two years, or three years.’ So within that, we’ll be able to offer the students something on the ethical basis, based on Buddhist philosophy and whatever else.
And then the other thing also, as an educator, I’m sure you’ll be very interested in this. You know in every community, sometimes we do things just because somebody else is doing it, and I am convinced that that’s the wrong way. We have to think- if you want to do something to help people or (can’t understand) something, usually have to think about what is really necessary, what you can really do. Not because somebody else has done it and I should also do that. So thinking on that line, we have in the community, many in such situations that people have started. You know, where the lay people could go and study, which are going on fine. But then I’ve been eavesdropping and also talking to students and say what’s really good and what’s really suitable? And there are also areas where they say they could have done without this. So it’s very helpful to hear from this and what I’m now planning is get these educationists together, get their advice, and say, ‘I’m trying to do this in my own little ways, not to over-do anybody, but to do something that’ll be in-tune with what we’re all doing, so please advise me how to go about- I have no idea, but I need your advice which you have through experience.’
So this is what I intend to- this is how I intend to create the curriculum. And then show it to His Holiness, and get his approval, and that’s how I’m planning. Because very often people immediately ask me ‘how- or how long this study period is’ or ‘what is the curriculum?’ I have no idea right now. But I only have the thought that we need something like that right now. And I’m sure. It will be possible and this is how we intend to go about it. So that’s our new project, and I wanted to share this with you and ok, thank you again for coming with such interest. It’s so good to see you, these are your faces, these are- you’re all looking forward to hear something. I’ll stop here, we can carry on.
Ward Mailliard: Who would like to begin?
Anika Compoginis: Hi, my name is Anika. One of the last times that one of our groups met with you in 2017, the first group of nuns had just taken the Geshema’s exam. Can you tell us what impact this has had on the nuns individually and their standing in the community?
Rinchen Khando: Well, they are so happy that they got the degree, and they literally shine with the confidence, ok? And this really convinced me how important education is to somebody, because that really brings the person’s inner self out. And then at the same time you have to think about, when you say education, I think it’s very important to think about and define the education. Now their education was actually to improve yourself as a human being. So it really has done, I can see the way they think, the way they talk, the way they analyze things. And the way they constantly remember that I should not be egoistic, I should not be selfish. This is based- their education is based on this. So I feel that they’re very, very happy.
Now, what impact they’ve had on the community is I’ve been talking to them and saying ‘you’re very lucky, you got this degree, you got this opportunity to study.’ And then I also said, ‘isn’t that amazing that you got this opportunity in exile whereas in a free Tibet, nobody thought about giving degrees to the nuns?’ So, again, that to me, is such a lesson that you should not always be pessimistic. Do the best and you know- make the best of what is available. Which we did because what was available is our freedom. There was no Chinese gun pointing at us saying ‘you can’t go to the class today.’ Then, of course, you had His Holiness’ vision and blessings to say ‘you need to study also.’ And then we had this wonderful international community who felt for the Tibetans and who felt for the nuns, who felt for the women, they all came to help us to make it available. So would you rather have this wonderful place to live in, wonderful teachers. This all didn’t fall from the sky, it all came this way.
So now, my conclusion to them is, you got what you have today because of all of this. And of course, you worked very hard, you also worked very hard for that I have my greatest respect. Now is the time to think ‘what can I give back?’ Because of the kindness of all these people and the hard work of all these people we got what we got. Now it’s my turn to give it back. They’re really now very geared towards doing something. And to start with, we have two nuns from this nunnery who have taken teachers roles. They have just been shifted to the teachers quarters, so they feel very proud that they’re teachers.
And then also in the community I think people realize how important it is to have these nuns be educated in the way they are, and then also, how important-how much of a role they will play in order to keep the philosophy and conscience living. So there’s a very good impact on the community by the nuns. Yeah, so did I answer your question?
Anika Compoginis: Yeah, thank you.
Rinchen Khando: Ok.
Nangsa Choedon: Can I add a small thing? The biggest influence I felt could be on the peer group of nuns, the younger nuns, because they can always look forward to you know, earn that degree and improve their studies day by day. So I think that has very great impact on the rest of the nuns in general, that they can target, they can look forward to reaching the Geshema degree, which was never ever dared in pre-Tibet as well as that’s happening in (can’t understand) for the first time in exile. So I think this will be a bigger impact for the rest of the nuns also and uplifting their life (can’t understand) other than having the basic facilities here, that becomes smaller in, you know, achieving the Geshema degree and being you know, meaningful member in society.
John Dias: Hi, I’m John. Do you think that when the nuns become ordained, the fact that they are women will allow them to bring something different or new to the Buddhist perspective?
Rinchen Khando: That- something new I don’t know, I really don’t know because it all depends on how curious they are, how meticulously they’ll follow all the vows and discipline they’re in- it all depends on how strictly they will carry it all on. So anyone who follows the Buddhist path in the purist possible will contribute whether it’s a man or a woman. So that way, it entirely depends on how they will behave, which I hope they will behave well and then I can you know- which I hope that way, and then also I hope that they will be an example in their own community if they did everything to the point, then people can look and feel and say ‘look how they’re doing it.’ Maybe some of the older monks can tell the younger monks ‘that’s how we should be also doing.’ So let’s see, I don’t know- I want to be too ambitious and say they’re going to make a lot of difference, I don’t know, it all depends on how they will behave.
And they should behave according to the book as we say, because otherwise, it’s wrong. Because Buddha has given us let’s say, the book to be followed, and are we really following it to the point? For that matter, every situation you know. The founder says something, and then down the line, it becomes something else. And then nobody really reviews or thinks or goes back. So I’m talking about my community and I feel that it’s very important for us to go to the book itself, because now people are literate, they’re educated, they can read, and there’s no restrictions that people can’t read this or that.
And then the most wonderful thing it, you know the Tibetan language is so precious in this (can’t understand) because I don’t know if I mentioned it before, in the 17th century, or a little later, the Tibetan King sent his ministers to India to study the Buddha dharma, and they founded the Tibetan language. They founded it from Sanskrit and Pali, ok? So to cut it short, the language we have today is actually a very ancient language but a very workable language. Again, some can be ancient and not workable, but ours is very workable. Then more precious is this leads exactly to the book that Buddha left.
So we can almost claim that if you want to study Buddhism by the book, study the Tibetan language. But this doesn’t mean that those who don’t understand Tibetan don’t understand Buddhism, that’s not the case at all. So my point is that we have the language, the nuns have the language, they have the opportunity, so they should go by the book and then even if they find something that has not been going by the book, they should not be afraid to implement that and review the whole thing and revise it. So this is what I’m hoping, yeah. In our own little ways. As long as you go by the book, who’s got the right to say- to stop you, right? But we have to go by the book which is wonderful. It’s amazing how Buddha laid down the book for us to follow.
Samith Lakka: Hi, I’m Samith and when asked about some of the difficulties faced when working with the nuns, you said “the challenges are: you really have to know what you are trying to do for them.” How did you discover what they needed that determined the direction you took in helping them?
Rinchen Khando: That’s a very difficult question, because you never know what the other one needs right? Anyway, my- I think my way of thinking was in general, we are a refugee community in which we have boys, girls, nuns, monks, old people and everything, and we try to look after them according to their needs. Therefore, we have the settlements where there’s the old-age homes, we have the monastery where the monks are studying. As for the nuns, the first thing I noticed was ok, she wants to become a nun, now how can I help her to achieve a nun’s livelihood? Then I had to also say to myself, ok, you want to help her, but how do you know how a nun should live, what her expectations should be? Therefore, it’s very important for me to know how to try to help that girl. So what I assumed, or what I understood is when a girl wants to be a nun, it’s a big sacrifice. She’s saying no to all these glittery worlds and becoming a nun. Simple, down to earth, and in many ways, very, very living poor is part in parcel with this life.
So I thought, they should understand what they’re getting into. And if they know what they’re getting into and why they’re getting into, then only should they become nuns and say ‘I am a nun.’ Otherwise, you’re just pretending to be a nun, but you’re not a nun. Therefore, I really tried my level best to make them understand that you’ve chosen a wonderful way of life, therefore, you should understand the qualities of this particular life and try to live them and to do that, you go to the Buddha’s words and see what he expects from monks and nuns. Of course from all of us, but particularly from the monks and nuns. And it’s very important that you know that and you live that.
So when I tried to understand that way, then of course to give them food and shelter of course it’s a must because they have nowhere else to go. And then medical care is very, very important because how could anyone do anything without being healthy? So my focus was on these and then be very strict in telling them, ‘if you want to continue becoming a nun, then do so. But the day you don’t want to, or you meet some handsome person and say ‘I’m in love, I want to get married.’’ I said, ‘don’t be afraid to come and tell me, I’ll be the happiest to hear that rather than doing something quietly and pretending to be somebody that you are not.’
So keeping in view of all these little things, then I tried to help them. This is how I learned what they need. Ok, according to my way of- and I think that was right. Then at the same time, I also took a lot of advice from the elder monks and teachers that ‘I’m doing this, is it ok to go this way?’ And they were all very, very helpful. And ways to discuss and go. Anyway, the bottom line is when you decide to become a nun or a monk, I think it’s very important that you live that transparently, because you just can’t fool and say ‘I’m a monk, I’m a nun,’ and then behind everybody’s back you do all kinds of things and that’s not good.
And then also, in terms of wealth, fame, all this, monks and nuns are not supposed to be interested in all these. Today, you see so many monks of all kinds, many nuns also, very interested in wealth, which is not correct. So you’re not supposed to accumulate wealth, and then you’re also not supposed to pretend to know something when you don’t know because so many people come to you thinking you know, you’re somebody’s special- ‘I’m in the depths of misery, please help me.’ It’s very dangerous for the person to pretend and say ‘don’t worry, I’ll clear all your obstacles.’ Who can do that? Nobody can do it. You have to do it yourself. Even Buddha said, ‘I can’t do it for you, you have to do it yourself.’
So I think it’s important when you say ‘helping a young nun,’ it’s important to discuss these because otherwise, sometimes we forget and then we get carried away with so many books and other things that the nit gritty things you forget. So these little things I’ve been trying to find out and help them, and then I’m very, very strict because this you might find very interesting; they’re not supposed to have their hair long, and they’re supposed to wear their dress very respectfully because that’s the dress of the ordained peoples right? But then you look around, including our own monks and nuns, sometimes they wear their dress very irrespectably, you know? I mean not very- how do you put it- decently, or not very respectfully they wear- I don’t like that at all. And then their hair, sometimes they forget to shave and then I go around and pull it and say ‘are you supposed to have this longer or is it time to shave?’
So you know, these things (can’t understand) but it’s important when you live by the book, you really have to live by the book. So that’s how I’ve been trying to help them. Now, the people who have gotten the certificate and gotten the degree, they know much more than I do, so I hope they’ll be able to help many other people.
Samith Lakka: Thank you.
Rinchen Khando: You’re welcome.
Sage Turner: Hi, my name’s Sage and in the work that’s been done in the Tibetan Nun’s project, there’s been a significant influence in the ways that Tibetan nuns are educated. So I was wondering in this work, do you ever find that there are some things that you don’t have the power to influence or haven’t yet had the opportunity to influence?
Rinchen Khando: Well earlier, very many years ago, the obstacle would be we would not have the power to say they should get the degree, you know it has to be discussed on a higher level and people have to talk about that. Those were all cleared. So there’s really no area where we feel powerless to influence them. So therefore, I don’t know about the others, but I feel we have to go (can’t understand) for playing a role of trying to help them. We really have to educated ourselves as to how to help them and then also really go down to the level of their understanding, their way of life, and then be able to influence them. And then I also found out that the best way to influence is actually live it yourself. You live that what you talk about and then people will automatically respect you and they find meaning in how you’re doing things. So that’s the best way- and to answer your question, actually, if the people are willing to interact and help each other, there’s no way you can say you can’t influence.
Imogen Cockrum: Hi, my name’s Imogen. You once said that “if you look into Tibetan culture and Buddhism, and try to study the two together, there’s a lot of interconnection.” I’d like to hear more about the interconnection between Tibetan culture and Buddhism and what are the differences, if there are any.
Rinchen Khando: Ok. Yeah, Tibetan culture is very much influenced by Buddhism, you know? If you take Buddhism away, you can almost say there’s no culture left. Which is good in a way because the influence from the philosophy into the livelihood is wonderful, really good, because- now how do I- for example, some of the culture- cultural aspects of Tibetan culture, is very, very in tune with the human mind.
But then one danger I see here is sometimes we might get stuck in the cultural aspect and don’t go further from there because this is what the nuns now study, debating, and analyzing. Ok, we have these prayer flags, you see prayer flags everywhere that Tibetans are there. You also burn incenses. And we believe that these are very, very uplifting and all of that. But how many of us really know how that really affects? Buddha never said anything about those things. If you read his books he never set down the line ‘you hand press flags in my name, burn incense in my name.’ He never said that. So where did all of this come from? It again came from the cultural side. Which unfortunately, people mixed up with the Buddhism.
So, it’s very much influenced- the cultural aspect is very much influenced. But now my drive is I want the younger generation to really analyze why do we do this? How does this really help us? And then, go to the book and say ‘what does Buddha say about this?’ That’s the way we really learn the real path. Although the influence is very much there, which is in many ways very helpful, but in many ways unhelpful in the sense that you stop mental growth there, which is not good.
Lillian Wayne: Hi, I’m Lillian. Given that you’ve grown up in the Tibetan and Buddhist culture, is it possible to talk about the ways it has personally benefited and enriched your life?
Rinchen Khando: Yeah, I don’t know how much of a good Buddhist I have been. Yeah, you’re right, I’m born in a Buddhist family and of course I always knew that I was a Buddhist, but I really came to know what a Buddhist is after thirty, because before that, I was a Buddhist but I didn’t really know what Buddhism really was. Because that’s how everything went; you take it for granted. You don’t study, you don’t really question, you go, you do everything correctly, but that’s how it goes. But as you mature, then you begin to find reason in so-called Buddhism or whatever. And then also, I’m very grateful to my parents who sent me to a school where Christianity was very much taught to the children and I was so impressed by the story of Jesus Christ, what he did. Because I’d never heard of him, never heard of him. And then also we go to the point of how he got crucified and I couldn’t understand why a good man like him- why’d he get crucified? You know this again opened my eye towards another religion, right?
Then I have many, many Hindu friends. In their homes it’s very wonderfully preserved and practiced in the best way, and I used to hear the stories related to that: Ram, Sita, Laaksman, and Krishna and Shankar, and all of this, I was very, very interested. And especially Shankar because I thought he was on the mountain of Tibet, so I used to connect him to Tibet.
So that way, to answer your question, yes I knew I was a Buddhist, but I was also very interested in all of this. And the wonderful thing here is I think it’s a very good thing for you to remember, not to stop children from being interested in these, because I gained so much because my parents never said ‘you’re a Buddhist, don’t go and listen to these Christians or Hindus or any others.’ They left me open, which is so wonderful. And then, of course you grow up and you here more- it all depends on your interests, and if you have interests you have so many people to learn from, books to read from, that’s how- then you of course begin to compare. So the basic thing is every religion teaches you to be a good human being, have a kind heart, all of this is there. So then you begin to think, ok, even Buddha says the same thing. I’ve been born a Buddhist, so therefore try to be kind, try to be helpful, try not to do anything that’s negative, it’s very much there.
So since we always think about it, I think it automatically influences you- you’re way of thinking. But again, how much we really make that influence you is so much a question. Because just because we know all of this, doesn’t mean we’re doing everything right all the time. Because all of us, at least myself, we know what is right and what is wrong, but yet we go on doing the wrong thing. So I can say I have been born a Buddhist, I have been very lucky to hear so many wonderful teachers, and their teachings and the culture has really given me a lot of gifts and influence. But to live a real good Buddhist life, or a life that Buddha showed the way to, I had to work very hard.
Priyanka Bharghavan: Hi, I’m Priyanka. In an interview with Tricycle Magazine you said, “as you analyze your experience, you have a new understanding.” In the same interview, you also said, “recite the mantras, understand them and make them part of yourself.” At our school, we use reflection as a means to better integrate our learning experiences. Can you talk more about your process of reflection and understanding and what it has meant to you?
Rinchen Khando: Ok, understanding what we are so called the mantras that we are- very, very important because we say mantras and we stay on retreats for so many days and things like that, but yet we don’t analyze it and we don’t live it. So, again, it’s very- I have learned that it’s very important to understand for example the mantras, why we are saying the mantras, what it really means. And not only that, after having said it, how you live it. This is the most important thing.
And then, to live it, you have to really analyze it, understand it. So I say this because again, I would like to give the example of our own people. You know our people are so wonderful in general. Very peaceful, very gentle, but when it comes to ignorant faith, our people are just as bad. You know we go on believing everything that is said without really understanding. Then it comes to the- now the point is saying mantras. People start being- feeling good on how many times you have said it. People say, ‘I’ve said it 100,000 times…I have said 600,000.’ They feel very good about it. But they don’t see what impact that had on you, or should be having. For example, somebody could have said 100,000 mantras and go out of the room and he or she will start fighting. So what’s the use of that, right? And sometimes I see parents saying the mantras very, very carefully and very seriously and if the children make any noise, ‘don’t make noise, I’m saying this!’ What’s the use, right? So this is where we really have to analyze and say which is- is it better to turn to the children and see what they need, or continue saying this? In fact, it’s better not to continue because it’s bringing you negative emotions, so therefore, if I’m saying it right, I think it’s very important for us to analyze anything we talk or learn or have an understanding of that. And then we’ll be in a situation to- either to live it or let it go.
John Dias: Hi, I have another question for you. In a past interview with Mount Madonna Students you said, “don’t cling onto things when they don’t turn out how you hoped they would.” Can you give us an example of where this has occurred in your life?
Rinchen Khando: Many times, constantly it happens, isn’t it? And then the sooner we try not to cling on it, the better it is. I mean that doesn’t mean you don’t try to do what you really want to do. There are many things that we really want to do and people will try, and many times we succeed, but then just because once it didn’t succeed you give up, it doesn’t mean that. You try again and again. But eventually, if it doesn’t work, then don’t cling onto it, because then if you don’t cling onto it, that frees your mind from being sad or feeling miserable about that not having worked. Because again, analyzing here, by worrying about not having worked doesn’t help, no. It doesn’t help the situation anymore. You tried your best, it didn’t work. So now, what’s the use of saying ‘oh, it didn’t work,’ even if you go on saying- crying the whole day, it’s not going to change the situation. So that’s what I meant to say, don’t cling onto it. Let it go. And talk very casually and happily. I tried my best, but didn’t work, so what to do, right? That’ll be the best. That’s what I do. That’s what I say in the home also with my husband and with children. I say ‘I did my best,’ I am honest about that, so if it didn’t work, too bad.’
But one has to be very sincere, you know? One has to be sincere to oneself and say the truth, it does nothing- nobody can really force you to do anything you don’t want to. Nobody should. Yeah, don’t cling onto it, and search for another thing to do, but then don’t give up doing it either, because everything won’t fail. One might fail but the other thing you try might be so wonderful. So never presume that ‘no use trying, nothing will work.’ That’s also no good. You try one thing, doesn’t work, then try another thing. Don’t cling on, but don’t stop trying.
Ward Mailliard: I want to ask a question of the students, before we ask our last question. What did you hear that struck you from the conversation that we’ve had so far that had meaning for you? Ok, so whoever starts can point the direction of where we’re going to go.
Kaili Sullens: Hi, I’m Kaili. I really loved when you said that you don’t want to cling onto things but you also want to move on if at some certain point, you know, you’ve tried too hard, but that doesn’t stop you know what you really want and go after, and I really liked that.
Luca Peruzzi: So I really like what you said like what he was saying about psychology, I’m really interested in that and all these different perspectives you’ve given me, it kind of is almost, I feel like I could like write a book about this. There’s so many levels and there’s so many interesting points just that you’ve made here, and I feel like that could really help me personally. Because I feel like when I’m struggling, just remembering the impermanence and just really looking at the cause and effect like you said, just- that just hit me really hard and I realized that can help me so much. So thank you.
Rinchen Khando: I’m glad.
Imogen Cockrum: I loved when you said that no one can help you but yourself, partially because my mom tells me that almost every day, and my mom is my best friend so being here away from her and having you say that, I feel like it’s- I mean we’re on opposite sides of the world and how connected that is to hear that on opposite sides of the world, one from my best friend and two from someone- from you, so I love that.
Rinchen Khando: Well tell your mom that she has a friend here.
Noah Kaplan: Alright, well first off, when you asked that if you’d answered my question, I want to say probably, because there was a lot in there, and I have notes, but I have to think about that and decompress that, reflection later. So we’ll see what I got out of that.
Rinchen Khando: Exactly.
Noah Kaplan: And then what struck me was just now when you were talking about suffering and how that’s all- or at least a lot of it is in our control and we get to decide by changing our mental brainwork how we think.
Rinchen Khando: Absolutely.
Lillian Wayne: For me, what you said about not clinging onto things, personally, I really let myself down a lot if something doesn’t go the way I planned and I think that was important for me to hear, just- it’s ok to have a goal, but it’s ok to let go of things and not just tear yourself down if something doesn’t go the way you thought.
Rinchen Khando: All provided, you’ve done your best, you know? Don’t let- don’t compromise, do your best, but if it doesn’t work, then you’ve done your best.
Ward Mailliard: One of the reasons I love to come and talk to you is I always learn, and it always opens up awareness for me because I’m just slightly your younger brother, ok, we’re very close, and what we have in common is dedicating our lives to building an institution to help make the world a better place. And I had- I’m just one of many who have built our institution, so I’m not taking special credit, but I did my best. What’s very poignant for me is the stage that your at, which I’m approaching, which is where you have to let go, and how do we take the lessons that we’ve learned that’s deep in our bones from our experience because we worked hard, we made some sacrifices, we also benefited by our work because it gave us a meaningful life. How to pass on that knowledge, how to pass on what you really know in your bones, deep in your bones, you know? From experience. That in some ways can only be learned from experience. But from the texture of your responses, I feel this poignancy of will we be able to continue the sacrifice, the (can’t understand), of offering that was made by our generation to see that continue in the next generation, because that’s the only thing that’s going to keep the knowledge, the sacrifice, and the potential of humanity alive. How does the next generation rediscover what we discovered? How do we pass it on? As very imperfect teachers, speaking for myself. So it’s a deep question and I feel it resonating in you in so many things you’ve said about trying to remind people of what’s important, not because of orthodoxy, but because it provides a mental attitude about caring. So thank you for that.
Rinchen Khando: You’re most welcome, you’re most welcome.
Shannon Kelly: What you said about forgiveness, about when somebody harms you and not- and recognizing their suffering and how that alleviates your own suffering if you forgive and see that they’re coming from a place of suffering. That struck me because I think I read that and I’ve thought it and it’s something you need to remind yourself of because it’s easy to get caught up in trying to understand the logic when harm is caused, and often there is no logic, there is not reason, and if you can understand that, and just recognize the suffering of the person causing the harm, then that’s a really important lesson.
Rinchen Khando: Yes, if I may add a little bit here. You know when I do that in my many small ways, it’s amazing how that forgiveness, this sense of forgiveness from your side, (can’t hear) your feeling. I feel as though I’m lying on a cotton bed, you know? Other than that, if you go on saying ‘why should I go like this?’ It’s just like lying on thorn bushes, you know? A stack of thorns, you just sit on that and there’s no comfort. So that’s how I realize the power of forgiveness, the power of kindness, the power of concern. You don’t lose, you don’t lose at all. You gain all of this, and you’re much more powerful after that. Although seemingly you may have given up, but yeah, that’s how I really feel. Thank you for having understood that.
Priyanka Bharghavan: I really liked when you said ‘be sincere to yourself.’ You were answering the question about not clinging onto things when they don’t work out. I think I kind of understood a lot, from all of your answers to our questions, you spoke a lot about openness and honesty, and I think that little quote sums it up perfectly: ‘be sincere to yourself, live with sincerity.’ I think it’s a very valuable lesson.
Samith Lakka: One thing you said that I really resonated with was not to limit yourself and your children to one religion in order to gain knowledge because I grew up in a Hindu family and coming to this school, our senior year- we learned- we had a class called World Religions and I really enjoyed learning all the different aspects from different religions.
Rinchen Khando: That’s wonderful.
Mara Peruzzi: Hi, so as we’re all finishing high school now, we’re all going to go off and figure out what we want to dedicate our lives to, and so what really struck me was just do what you said about just go where your heart is, and I think that’s really important because personally, I’m not entirely sure what I want to do, but I know that I do want to dedicate myself to other people and helping other people in some way and yeah, just do what is necessary.
Rinchen Khando: Wonderful.
John Dias: I really loved when you were talking about simplicity. You said, ‘simplicity brings peace.’ And I think that was really powerful to me. And you said ‘be wise in being simple.’ And that made me think about a lot of things and I’m going to go to the hotel tonight and think about that for a while because that was really powerful, so thank you for those words.
Rinchen Khando: You’re most welcome. To add one thing more, we say having compassion should be accompanied by wisdom. So wisdom there is very, very important. Sometimes we can be ignorantly compassionate, that’s also no good. Otherwise we tend to think compassion is so wonderful you know, but without wisdom and analyzing, that can also not be that effective. Thank you for taking that in so well.
Anika Compoginis: I agree with everything everyone’s been saying, but the thing that got to me the most was how impermanence is such a valuable thing to understand and how this is all temporary so don’t hold onto things but also make the best of everything that you have and appreciate it, and give back also what you were saying, give back to your community. That’s what I’m taking with me.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you. I didn’t know I had said so many wise things.
Ward Mailliard: This is what’s important I think, often is to hear what we say said back to us so we know what lands, otherwise we walk away and we don’t know. And also it’s how we internalize it by recognizing what we’ve noticed. You’ve talked a lot about that in – throughout the conversation, is how do we internalize our experience? And I was also thinking about the impermanence of joy as well, because this for me is a moment of joy, and it too will pass. And so something about being present in our experience is very important there. Knowing it will change and yet being present is I think one of the great challenges. Especially for these guys who are thinking about college and thinking ‘what’s next? What’s next?’ But just to enjoy this moment which is exquisite.
Rinchen Khando: It’s so wonderful to see so many promising young people you know? And it’s so good that you’ve brought them like this every year, because I mean we don’t have much to offer, but then I think it’s very important for us as human beings to see each other, hear each other, and interact with each other, because we often get so caught up with the material things that we don’t see the real people. So this way you get to see the people, you get to hear the people, and I think today, we need it more than ever before. Because when I travel abroad, I can see with all my respect and concern for the west as well, I see this and I don’t feel too good, because everybody’s really in their own ways. Am I right? And yeah, it does give me a very good feeling, because you have such wonderful everything. But the people are the most important things. So if we fail to pay attention to the people, than everything else is useless.
Then, on the other hand, you know this is the 60th year of our exile life, and say in about 10-15 years’ time, we used to think that we’d go back to Tibet tomorrow, didn’t happen, didn’t happen, now it’s 60 years, and now, I think I used to before think we’ll go back to Tibet, ok, I don’t want to be a minster, I don’t want anything, but I want to go back to the villages and start (can’t understand) for the children and day schools for the children. That was my aim. But now, at 74, I’ve given up that aim because even if I do go back, I’ll be too old to travel to the villages. So I have to be realistic, right? Not that I don’t want to go, but am I physically- I’m 74, and if it takes another 10 years, I’ll be 84. But then that doesn’t mean that you stop thinking about it, because otherwise, it’d be too selfish. Just because you can’t go doesn’t mean that you don’t think about the six million Tibetans. So I still think a lot and then in connection with my travels, I feel very, very much connected with the rest of the world and the young people like you all because when I look at you all it’s just like looking at my son and daughter, honestly because you have the same way of talking, the same energy, which is so similar. So then I keep asking myself, at my age, how could we not realize that the world is one? You know we have never realized that and even today, we haven’t. Now go back to all these historical times when people were so nasty to each other, the west and the east alike, ok? So this all came around because we failed to understand that we all belong to the same family and we are still not doing that. Now my request for you all is please, whatever you’re thinking of doing for the community or anything, work on this and make people realize that we are all one, and there is no difference. Therefore, the world can- then your generation, your children, your grand-children’s time, you can expect for a better world. Otherwise, I don’t see anything positive, honestly.
And then thinking about Tibet as a captured country. I mean it’s the Chinese government who captured us. Why don’t the people say anything about is these days. Not people, but the government? On a human level, on a people’s level, we have a lot of support which we truly cherish and appreciate. But on the government level, people are becoming more and more careful, more and more not saying things. Why, again, not that they care less for Tibet, but they’re too greedy for themselves. Because they think by being friends with China they can have their business, what are they going to gain from there? What are they going to give to their people? Ok, a little more money, that’s not going to solve all the problems. So therefore, if they’re not thinking properly, it’s high time that they come for the weaker sections of the community. Therefore, support the weaker nations if they’re bullied by the stronger nations. Be it Tibet, or anywhere. So, I’m really quite disappointed on that level with the very powerful nations not saying anything. So this is my- what do you call- request for you to take home. Remember that when you become presidents or prime ministers of countries, think about this time. So yeah, that’s where we feel very, very sad, really sad. Anyway, feeling sad doesn’t mean that you give up struggling, we’re still struggling.
Ward Mailliard: Sage? We didn’t get around to you? Sage, let’s give you the last word, and then ask the last question and then let Rinchen go.
Sage Turner: Well what you said was really beautiful, that we’re all one, so I wanted to add that. And also your emphasis on analyzation, it’s really important that you’re instilling it on the nuns being educated here, and how crucial it can really be to an individual and a community. You know, analyzing what you say, what you do, and it can really help alleviate your suffering as well and I think that’s really important and I’ll take that with me.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you, thank you very much.
Mara Peruzzi: Hi, I’m Mara. In a past interview with Mount Madonna, you said, “that even as we search for meaningful ways to use our lives, people come and get caught up with ideas, and they really get involved in them, and then by the time they’re 50 or 60, they realize that it really was for nothing.” Are there any basic values or principles that would be helpful for us in choosing the right path or be more likely to lead us to long term fulfillment?
Rinchen Khando: That’s a very difficult question. Yeah, but I think the important thing is whatever path you choose, the guidelines should be sincerity, kindness, and altruism. If you have these, then whatever you do is bound to make meaning, and as you go on doing then more and more will open up to you. So I think these two principles, sincerity- what did I say?- kindness, and altruism, so these are very, very important, you can never go wrong here. But one has to be very sincere about it, right? Sincere, transparent, yeah.
Ward Mailliard: Thank you so much, really. This has been the best conversation we have ever had- I’ve loved them all but this one was very special. Thank you so much.
Rinchen Khando: Thank you, thank you. You’re most welcome. It really- I really always enjoy coming and meeting the students and meeting you and talking to you because I feel that you’ve come all the way from there, searching for something – not that you don’t have but you want something more valuable and accumulate them all together, so it’ll be our failure not to accommodate that request, regardless of whether we can fulfill. So it’s my pleasure to be here and I’m sure from now onwards, you will also be very- you will enjoy talking to her. But at the same time, I want to make this clear talking to you today that as long as I’m in station, you are most welcome to contact me and the on top of meeting her, if we meet somewhere else, that can also be possible. Rather than my coming down here, she can do her talking here and then we can do our own talking. And I am together with her, which I do with most of our important contacts which is that I want her to see what I do and then add on top of that in her own way. So that’s why we are together in top of introducing her to you all.
Ward Mailliard: This is how we pass it on.
Rinchen Khando: Right.
Ward Mailliard: Well thank you.
Rinchen Khando: Ok, so you’re meeting His Holiness tomorrow?
Ward Mailliard: We’re scheduled to see him tomorrow.
Rinchen Khando: Good, good, because he hasn’t been too well, sometime ago, and still very much you know so many people to meet him. I’m glad you got the meeting which means he must be feeling better. So that’s wonderful. Yeah, the last thing I want to- once again talking about religion today, we were talking also about Buddhism, you know myself as a Buddhist, what I like about Buddhism the most is Buddha never said you cannot go to heaven without myself, he said ‘you’re your own master, you create your own way to heaven if there is a heaven.’ So this really makes me- I really like this so much, because that empowers us, doesn’t it? This is the empowerment that we get. What more empowerment than that? You can do it, you are a human being, you have all the qualities of- you can speak, you can walk, you can do things, so you find it out, that’s what he’s saying. You also have a brain, not like the animals, you can speak, you know? The definition of human beings in Tibetan is (can’t understand)- That’s it, and then also, Buddha never said women can’t do this. Ok? He had such a respect for women because women’s kindness- he said mother’s kindness is matchless. A mother, how she cares for the child, that kind of kindness is matchless. Which means again, indirectly, that only is possessed by women, right? So we should be happy about that. And then the other thing is you are your own master, he never said men are their own master, he didn’t say women aren’t. So that’s why I keep telling our young people, there’s no need to you know, quarrel so much when all these wonderful things- they just bring it out of the shelf, dust it and then let people see it. Yeah.
Ward Mailliard: So that’s self-empowerment.
Rinchen Khando: Yes, indeed.